Host: Welcome to the Lifelong Wellness podcast, where we talk to wellness professionals from around the world to gain their insights into healthier living. I’m your host, Wes Malik. When we talk about health and wellness, we tend to focus on the physical aspect. We talk about our food, we talk about nutrients and vitamins and minerals, and we talk about exercise. We also tend to focus on mental well-being as well. And sometimes we focus on different things that might impact our health. And I'm sure that we could learn a lot from today's guest, Bracha Goetz, who is not your typical Harvard grad. She is the author of 38 books for children and adults. One specifically, which is a memoir about, of course, herself and her own ordeals with wellness and health. So let's welcome today's guest. Bracha, welcome to the Lifelong Wellness podcast. How are you doing today?
Bracha: Wonderful, thank you.
Host: We are excited to have you on and we’re really looking forward to talking about you and your memoir and your books and, you know, everything that's, you know, can be related to your life. I was speaking to you earlier and you mentioned you retired this year. So congratulations. How does it feel living a retired life?
Bracha: Oh, it’s really wonderful. Even better than I thought. (laughing)
Host: All right. Do you keep busy or have you have you changed your daily routine?
Bracha: Yes. You know, I used to go to the gym and now during the pandemic I’m doing exercise over Zoom and I can’t believe how much I love it. Because I met all new people that I would never meet. They’re the people that don't live near me and I became friends with all new instructors and people in the class and it’s fantastic. I’m totally loving it. I’m recommending it to everybody how a great Zoom exercise is. Yes.
Host: So how does it work? Okay, I have not seen a zoom exercise. In fact, this is the first I'm hearing of it. How does the Zoom fitness program work? How does it work?
Bracha: Oh, it’s amazing because the instructor can see all of us. We see the instructor if you want to be seen. That's the other thing. If you don't want to be seen, you don't have to be seen. It gives you that option. If you want to see the other participants, you see the instructor and the instructor can even tell you what you’re doing wrong or how to change it. They can feel. It’s amazing because I went to one outdoor class recently and was outside and I was so far away from the instructor that I felt much closer to the instructor when I saw her on the Zoom class, you know? So, it’s like amazing.
Host: That’s brilliant. Brilliant. That is fantastic. Would you recommend Zoom fitness classes to everybody?
Bracha: I think it's the greatest. So many people don't want to try it and it’s fantastic. It's really opened up a whole world for me, too. I’m doing a lot of Zooms, myself, now. I do book presentations by Zoom and the exercise classes are amazing. I do yoga, I do dance, I do weightlifting, all different types of Zoom. There’s a great variety that people choose. So, the sky’s the limit. It's wonderful.
Host: You know, during this pandemic a lot of people complain that they're holed up in their homes and have nothing to do, they can’t go outside, but your life is kind of proving otherwise. It sounds like you might be even busier than before, you know, going out.
Bracha: Yes. I’m not sure if I’m busier, I’m having a wonderful time. In fact, that's what I want to talk about today. There’s so much pleasure that is possible, even for those that are stuck at home. And this is something I am loving sharing. One of the things that I'm loving to share is about this concept of the pleasure ladder and how a person can bring infinite pleasure into their lives even while they are stuck at home. So, I'm really looking forward to sharing this. Like I said when I retired, I figured, you know, I'm so happy with what I've accomplished. I didn't really feel motivated to do a whole lot more. And now during the pandemic I have found so many things that I'm loving to do. I’m reaching people all around the world because I can do presentations, and I go to countries I’d never been to just from doing this. So the reach is infinite. Thank God we really have the ability to reach people, anyplace, even from our own homes.
Host: I read an article yesterday about where I live and, you know, pandemic fatigue is setting into Ontario in Canada. That's where I am, in Toronto. You know, it’s like that for everyone around the world. I read about some people protesting in Lisbon, Madrid in Spain because they have a second wave and they’re locking down and people are kind of upset. But I think that's what it is. Happiness, where to find it? How to find it if things change? How can we adapt? And I think you're the perfect person to talk about this. So how can we find infinite happiness even if we’re kind of stuck at home?
Bracha: Okay, great. Especially, I want to say, you know, young people may not have to stick around at home as much as older people. With this type of pandemic it seems to affect us older people, much more than the younger people. But this is really a message for anybody at any point in your life whether you're out, whether you’re in, wherever you are. So this is something that I discovered. Since my memoir was published I started giving presentations, and while giving the presentations, actually I had the chance to do a lot more reading, too. And I read this ancient wisdom which I had never discovered before about, well I had learned before that there are five levels of pleasure. It's called, I call the Pleasure Ladder, five rungs on the Pleasure Ladder. But what I learned recently, this is so amazing, is that there are five levels to the human soul. So all humans, we’re all spiritual beings housed in bodies and we all have the same human soul with five levels to it. And what’s so interesting is that it corresponds to these five levels on the Pleasure Ladder. So this is truly something universal. It can help everybody to have more pleasure in their lives and it's based on really ancient spiritual wisdom. It's not just like popping up like there is some Maslow's hierarchy of needs, levels. And it correlates somewhat to those levels, but this is actually based, it's not an arbitrary system, it's actually based on ancient wisdom. So it's like, and it’s across all religions. I recently…This was something I picked up from a Jewish mystical kabbalat and I recently read that in Hindu religion also talks about there was a guru, he’s explaining that there’s this five levels to the human soul and they correspond to the levels of pleasure. So it's like truly a universal thing that I am loving spreading this, especially at a time when everybody needs more joy and pleasure in their lives right now.
Host: Can you tell us about the five levels of the soul?
Bracha: Here we go! Yes! Here we go. So the first level are the physical pleasures. Because the lowest level of the soul is connected to our bodies. This is the level of the soul that actually connects. It’s the life force that connects to our bodies and so these, the physical pleasures are the pleasures that we get on this lowest level of pleasure. And these all relate to our senses. These are all sensory pleasures.
Bracha: And that’s why you see addictions are becoming more and more widespread. I, myself, had a food addiction in my past and I couldn’t understand why. When I finally got the spiritual nourishment that I was looking for, I no longer had the need for an addiction in my life. What did one thing have to do with the other? So that's what my memoir is about. How that discovery process happened and how I realized that it was the spiritual nourishment that helped me to heal from the food addictions I had. So basically, let’s say a thing like food is a physical pleasure.
Host: Yes, it is.
Bracha: Yes. Now in this world, the most amazing thing I learned when I first got this spiritual nourishment I was searching for for years is that the purpose of life is to experience the greatest pleasure possible. We normally don’t realize it and that changed my entire perspective. It was a rabbi that taught me this and is no longer alive, Rabbi Weinberg. And it was the most fundamental change in my life to understand because that's what I was searching for for years. What is the purpose to life? And to discover that, it's to experience the greatest pleasure possible. That sounds like hedonistic but actually it's the opposite because the greatest pleasure possible are the spiritual pleasures in this world. Those are the lasting pleasures. So, the physical pleasures are the lowest level. So that's why a person can easily get stuck, taking food for example. Food, it could have been tasteless. It could have been a tasteless pill that we put in our mouths for fuel. Instead, it has an aroma, it tastes delicious and it has beautiful colors. And like when fruits, when fruits become its ripest, it's the most beautiful, it's the brightest, most attractive color. That's when we’re supposed to pick it off the tree, right when it's the most beautiful. So everything was designed for our greatest pleasure. In other words, food didn't have to be pleasure but it is and everything that we experience with our senses. It was meant to be a great pleasure for us to be alive. Actually, that's the reason why we were created was to give us pleasure. Really like the understanding…I wasn’t brought up believing in God. So this is something that I only came to later on when I was taught this, when I was given this spiritual nourishment.
Bracha: But there’s no like “What is the purpose for us?” The purpose is so that, if God was everything, how could God give to another. So it's in a sense, what we understand from mystical writings is that God actually contracted his being in order to make room to give to another. And what we as parents want to give most to our children? The greatest pleasure possible in life. That's what God wants to give us. And that doesn't mean there was pain involved because there can definitely be pain involved in pleasure. In challenges, in climbing a mountain, there is pain involved. In giving birth there’s pain involved, but it is for an ultimate pleasure. It's all to make us into better people. So back to the physical pleasures. Okay, so a person can get stuck in addiction.
Bracha: Because they're getting…If a person doesn't have enough other pleasure in their life, they’re lacking pleasure and they want the pleasure to last that they're experiencing from a physical pleasure. That's why a person gets stuck in an addiction. It's on the physical level and they get stuck there because they want whatever pleasure, the immediate pleasure that they're experiencing from the physical pleasure. They want it to last so they keep on with the addiction because they don't want the pleasure to stop, because they're seeking that comfort in life.
Host: It becomes repetitive as well. Kind of like nicotine, drugs, sugar, food as example.
Bracha: Exactly. It's all, these are all addictions that we keep doing because we want the pleasure to last. That is the purpose that they’re serving in our lives. So how can we overcome them? By bringing in even greater pleasures. That is the way and it's not a distraction. It's what we are really desiring, it’ what our soul is really craving is lasting pleasure in life. That's what we were meant to be doing here, experience the greatest pleasure possible. So, therefore, in order to let's say a person is overeating.
Bracha: They can get in the habit of asking themselves this one question. Is it my body that is hungry or my soul? That creates…If you answer that question with loving awareness then you will know what it is that's really hungry. Whether it's your soul or your body. You’ll know that immediately. A person will just know it. And what is that question do? It actually gets the neurons firing in the prefrontal cortex. With that question, the neurons shift from firing in the brainstem. The basic brainstem, the back of the brain, the amygdala, where a person is feeling fear or the flight or feeling scarcity in life and feeling “I need to eat this food because I won't have any other pleasure coming up after this”. So I'm just going to keep eating, you know? (laughing)
Bracha: Then it moves up to the prefrontal cortex and you ask this higher-level question, “Is it my body that's hungry or my soul?”. And when you ask that you can move your little finger and you can press a button and start playing music. Suddenly you feel like dancing or stretching and you don't feel like finishing the box of chocolate chip cookies anymore, you know. Or you open the window and you feel a breeze coming in and you feel the sunshine on your face and suddenly the box of cookies isn't calling your name in the same way anymore, you know. Or the amazing thing is, you don't even have to do that. Just thinking the thought of opening the window or turning on the music, that alone causes a shift and you become aware of getting spiritual fulfillment instead of having to finish up the pie or the bag of potato chip. Suddenly you’re in a higher place. And that’s even from another physical, that's subbing in another physical pleasure only. A pleasure on the same level as the food but you are showing that there is a plentitude in life. You're experiencing that there is an abundance of pleasures. You don't feel that sense of scarcity and fear any longer so that you can relax and bring more pleasure into your life. Even on the lowest run of pleasure on the physical level, you can bring other pleasures in and you don't feel as trapped, caged in your addiction any longer. So that's already how to, just the first level. How to expand one's life to bring in more pleasure and to free one’s self from addictions.
Host: From your own personal experience that you wrote about in your memoir, Searching for God in the Garbage?
Bracha: Yes. I wrote about this. What I’m sharing today, my memoir is my journey. It starts from age 12 to age 32 and it's a book that basically wrote itself because it's a compilation of pieces of my diaries and journals and letters through the years that I kept and I put it together. And when I was compiling it, I was able to finally see the thread of what tied the whole book together, of how did I develop the addictions and then how did I heal from the addictions. So it's kind of a psychological mystery because at the end of the book is when I have the Epiphany and I finally understand how the addictions developed and then how I was able to heal.
Host: A lot of people don't go over their, a lot of people don't go over their own lives in retrospect. Meaning looking back and, you know, because most of us, the majority of us, just have maybe memories. And sometimes we don't even have a lot of memories, just pieces of fragments of our childhood. But now considering that you documented it, did it feel like you were looking at somebody else's life? How did it feel looking at your own life in retrospect and analyzing it?
Bracha: Yes. Beautiful question. It was totally exciting.
Bracha: I was studying at Harvard with a Psychology major and then when I went to medical school I was studying to be a psychiatrist.
Bracha: So obviously this is what fascinates me, you know, I mean what's going on in the mind and then I'm a writer so I actually documented what was happening. It was like doing a case study of myself. You know what I mean? (laughing) It was really interesting to do but I think I learned so much that could be shared, that could relate to other people. And what’s so amazing is that since the book was published and I’ve been giving presentations, I've learned so much more. And that's why I am just loving being able to share this and help so many other people. And with the pandemic now and so many people have just gained weight, just hanging out at home, so this is able to help people with a wonderful way out of it. It's like the most enjoyable way because people tend to lose weight on diets but they are on yo-yo dieting their whole lives. They lose weight and they gain weight. It’s such a discouraging thing to do. And this has nothing to do with dieting. I mean, it has to do with feeding the part of us that's truly hungry because people keep trying to feed their physical bodies and give them more, but it never fills the empty spot within. So they always feel hungry, but it's not a physical hunger. We don't need a tremendous amount of food for our physical body. (laughing) But we do need a tremendous amount of pleasure in order to thrive in life.
Bracha: And that’s what we’re supposed to have. So when we recognize that we are spiritual beings clothed in bodies, then we are really able to give ourselves the spiritual sustenance that we need. So that's not first level. I’m happy to…Yes, go ahead please.
Host: Sorry, I keep interrupting but your conversation and the things you’re telling us bring out so many thoughts I want to talk to you more about this. I think you're absolutely right. There's over a billion people who celebrate the holy month of Ramadan where they fast.
Host: And the purpose behind that is, you know, is misconstrued by most of the world, but the genuine actual purpose is to actually feed the soul by focusing on spirituality and religion.
Host: And when you take away the food element that's basically the purpose. You know, getting in touch with yourself, getting in touch with your wants and desires, thinking about, you know, other things, other existential planes and lot of people go through that once a year. And maybe it was ordained because human beings require it. You come to that conclusion and a lot of people actually spend a portion of their year focusing on that. There's over a billion people who practice fasting in the month of Ramadan. And the process of fasting is very simple. You stop eating and drinking at sun up and you start eating and drinking at sun down. That's it. And in the meantime…
Bracha: They call that intermittent fasting.
Host: Yes, and it’s for 30 days or a lunar calendar and in between it's not only the act of not eating or drinking or smoking, but it's also not only abstaining, but it's in order to get in touch with yourself and God and spirituality like you mentioned.
Bracha: Amazing. I love that you brought this up. You know, there's so many things in religions that people are doing and they don't even know why they're doing it. Like it becomes a cultural thing after a while and they forget the pure beginning of it. What was the purpose of why they're doing these things? You know, we’re doing to connect with our souls better, to connect with source better. And yet, we can easily get stuck on the ritual and forget the source of the ritual.
Host: Or with the meaning, yes.
Bracha: Exactly. Just like and why is that again because we’re, it’s easy to forget that we are spiritual beings because we see that we’re physical bodies. So we easily get distracted by the physical and we can get caught up with the physical, forgetting the spiritual basis of it all.
Host: I think you’re absolutely right. Yes. I think you’re absolutely right. How do you…So is your book, Searching for God in the Garbage is about your memoir. You had an addiction to food. Was it so bad? How was it?
Bracha: I would fluctuate between anorexic behaviors and binge eating.
Bracha: So basically and the scarier part really was the binge eating. It was just so out of control and like I just grab, that's why I can understand this, the overeating very much. It's like a desperate search where nothing is ever enough. It’s never enough food because I guess it doesn't fill the empty spot within.
Bracha: It was a very difficult time in my life, you know, and I feel now that it was kind of a metaphor. It was my soul that was starving and it was giving a message to me that I was, it was a cry for help. You know, and so I said my body was trying to look like what my soul was feeling, you know, that it was starving for spiritual nourishment.
Host: So how did you nourish your soul? Before I ask you how we can do that, how did you start?
Bracha: (laughing) Right. Well, that’s the thing. You know, every soul, it needs spiritual nourishment in order to thrive. And I was searching many different religions. I was involved with Buddhism, I was search…I was born Jewish but I didn’t realize that Judaism was a spiritual experience. Like I said, I was familiar with the cultural aspects but I did not… In many sense my heritage was lost to me. So I experimented. I tried different aspects of Buddhism and Christian science and I was very much involved with environmental activism and social justice and types of things. I’m even experimenting with drugs. You know, different things. I was searching for the purpose of life and meaning. And so every soul is uniquely different. And for me, for my soul, my soul was a Jewish soul. When I finally got to learn about the ancient Jewish wisdom in depth, it was like the most amazing experience for me. And right away I felt like all the religions had truth to it that I love and I gained from, but this was the piece, the missing puzzle piece that fit perfectly in my soul, you know. So for me, that's what change and it was this rabbi that talked about the five levels of pleasure and that the purpose of life is to experience the greatest pleasure possible that completely changed my life. It wasn't just a totally new perspective, a new way of looking at life. So from that point on, the need for the addictions just evaporated. There was no need and, you know, I was able to eat in a healthy way and it was just, and more and more I learned again to recognize my physical hunger and what’s my spiritual hunger and differentiate between the two. Yes.
Host: Do you attribute that to…You have a very positive and optimistic outlook on life. Just by gathering what you do in your day, it's very positive. Do you attribute that to spirituality?
Bracha: Oh, definitely, yes. (laughing) When the soul is thriving, one of the things that pleasure brings is energy. It brings tremendous amount of energy. So basically, pleasure gives the soul the fuel to shine. So I feel like my soul is really shining. And also as I’m going to explain, one of the ways that our souls shine tremendously is when we help other souls to shine. So the more that I do that, the more my own soul shine and you know. (laughing)
Host: The more you help people reach out to people, the better you feel.
Host: If we dissect religion from spirituality for a moment, how would you suggest people get in touch with their own internal whatever you want to call it. Soul, spirituality. Many people give examples of meditation, things like that. But what would you suggest?
Bracha: Yes. I mean, all those things help and I think that going up the Pleasure Ladder is what fills a person, is what nourishes them spiritually. So meditation definitely helps. Meditation is connecting. It’s connecting with your soul. It’s pausing to connect with your own soul and with the source of your soul. So it’s just, all of these methods, everything that was given to us as a gift in this physical world is meant to uplift our soul. The purpose of food is to uplift ourselves. We were given bodies and we could have just been souls. We could have remained just souls in the world of souls. But our souls were brought into this earth. They were drawn down here for a reason. We are meant to interact with this physical world and to uplift the sparks of spirituality and everything and everything physical. So that's what the food is meant to uplift us. And the more we eat really in a wholesome, natural way, it actually does that. And music is meant to uplift our soul. All these things like intimate relations between people. This is all meant to uplift our soul and all these things create pleasure in our bodies as well on the physical level, but they also uplift our soul. That's what's so amazing. And this world was designed that way. This is really meant to be a garden of Eden for all of us and we can return to that by enriching our souls and spreading it. This is really the way to go. So, could I tell you about the second rung of pleasure?
Bracha: The second rung is love. Love is the emotional pleasure that we get by focusing on the virtues of another. That's really what love is. Love is not sitting by the phone and waiting for someone to call you. And many people, you know, all these rungs on the ladder are empowering.
Bracha: We can do each of these things. We never have to wait for anybody to do them for us. We can do them. All we have to do is focus on the virtues of another and then we are experiencing love. It could be a pet, it could be an animal, it could be a plant, but it could be a human being. And by doing that we start experiencing the pleasure of love inside of us. When we focus on the virtues of another. So that's the second level up and that's a more lasting pleasure than the physical pleasure. And each level up you'll notice brings us more and more connection into the world. It brings us out of ourselves and in the first level we’re interacting with other objects in the world. And with love, we’re interacting with another being. We are we are focused on another being. And then the third level up is meaning. When we do things that are meaningful and we bring more good into the world, this brings us even more lasting pleasure. We become more part of the world that way. So what could ne next? The fourth level. Any guesses about what could be on the fourth level?
Host: Oh, no. Not at all. I’m completely blank.
Bracha: Okay. (laughing) Okay, the fourth level is creativity.
Bracha: It’s tapping into the creative flow of the universe.
Bracha: You know how when you do something creative, you don't even, like time just goes. You don’t even know that time is passing.
Bracha: You don't feel like eating or sleeping. You're involved in something creative. This is an even higher pleasure when you are doing something creative that uplifts our world, something positive. And then the highest level is transcendence. This is the state that we experience when we…When this happens we are connecting to source and we are connecting to everybody and everything. We are recognizing the unity of everything in the universe and us as a part of it. What happens at this point is the veil of estrangement just kind of lifts and this is how we feel a connection to everybody, the separateness. We recognize that our souls were all part of really one gigantic infinite soul and one source. You know, so the distinctions between us merge and we still have each of us are uniquely beautiful soul but we see how we connect to everybody and everyone else. So that's the highest level. It's not a level that we can sustain like we can't stay in that state of bliss all the time. And even the fourth and fifth level are states that really in the world to come is where we will be in an always plane. But for in this world it's not sustainable, but we get glimpses of it. Like on a starry starry night I think everybody knows that feeling and it stays with them forever. When they’re just out in the field in the country and you look up at the sky and it’s filled with stars and you get that sense of ‘oh' and connection with the universe.
Bracha: Yes. This is something we keep with us forever. So we’re not staying in that state of bliss always, but it's something, it's a lasting pleasure that energizes us at all times actually. So basically those are the five levels of pleasure and what I also what I learned from this Rabbi is the price we pay for each of these levels. The main price we pay to experience each of these levels is gratitude. Through gratitude we get to experience all of these levels. That's all we need to experience. Each one is a on gratitude, a focus on connection and that is what helps us to nourish our souls. Each of our unique souls.
Host: Being grateful.
Host: That is fantastic. So the five levels of pleasure correlate to the five levels of the soul.
Host: That is fantastic. Have you written about this?
Bracha: Well, I'm starting to. (laughing) More and more and some of it are in the book because I'm just beginning to learn about it there and there's more coming out. Right now I’m just enjoying spreading it by doing presentations about it from my home. I love doing that. You know, I love writing children's books because I like taking very deep ideas and writing them in very simple ways, expressing the deepest concept in a simple way. So I don’t love writing big books or articles, but I do it. But like I prefer to write about these deep things in a very joyful and simple way. That's really what my essence is about and what I love to do.
Host: You’ve written over 38 books for children. What was the most difficult concept to simplify for children?
Bracha: Oh, great question! Could you imagine one of my books is called The Invisible Book.
Host: Oh. Okay.
Bracha: And it’s because it's about everything we believe in that’s invisible.
Bracha: We believe in gravity, for instance, and yet we’ve never seen it. We believe in time, we believe in feelings, we believe in thoughts. We accept all this stuff of electromagnetism, we believe what makes them pick up a paper clip. We believe all these things and yet we've never seen any of these invisible things. Why? Because we see the effects that these things have in the world. Well, so I say, many people say I don't believe in God, I’ve never seen God, or you don’t believe you have a soul, but look at all the invisible things that we accept and see the effects. See the effects of God in this world and see the effects of our soul. Like every painting was painted by someone. Someone designed it. Did this whole beautiful world just come into being arbitrarily at random? I mean, does that makes sense? You know, maybe. But…
Bracha: Or does it make more sense that it was actually designed and that is a tremendous brilliance. A genius like beyond even to a tiny seed. A tiny seed that can be generated and regenerated and regenerated after thousands of years it would still regenerate. I mean, there’s all kinds of genius involved. The more we learn about it, the more we can appreciate how beyond genius this world is, you know.
Host: You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. So what's the next book that you’re going to be writing about?
Bracha: (laughing) There are two books in the works right now. One is What is Safety for the little children. I've also written books, you know, protecting children from abuse because that protects the soul. It’s just so important. The soul always remains pure. That's an important thing. Even if people get involved in addiction to whatever, if the person was brought up with abuse or neglect in childhood, whatever trauma a person has been through, it puts a ton of garbage on top of the soul, which is Searching for God in the Garbage. You know, our souls get covered with garbage. So many times in addition to nourishing our souls with pleasure, many times also people need therapeutic intervention as well. Why? In order to remove the garbage that's been piled on top of their beautiful pure soul. Because in many cases just nourishing the soul is not enough for it to shine when it's been covered with garbage for years and years. So people need help with extracting that garbage and that's why, you know, I've written books to prevent abuse because if that garbage never lands on top of their pure soul, they can so much more easily shine throughout life without having to excavate from underneath, you know.
Host: What is the tile of that book?
Bracha: Oh, the book is Let's Stay Safe book.
Bracha: And there’s another book called Let's Talk About Personal Privacy. Those are two books about preventing abuse for children.
Host: Where can we find those books?
Bracha: All of my books are on my Amazon page. So it’s Bracha Goets Amazon and you’ll find everything. All 38 books and they're all on my page.
Host: Bracha is spelled B-R-A-C-H-A and Goetz is spelled G-O-E-T-Z.
Bracha: Yes, Z, right. (laughing) Thank you.
Host: Do you have a website? Do people get in touch with you, email address or anything like that?
Bracha: Oh well, that’s all on my Amazon page. I really don’t need a website because everything was there.
Host: It’s all there.
Bracha: Yes. Exactly.
Host: Wonderful. Are there any audio book versions of your books as well?
Bracha: Well, my memoir is in a Kindle.
Bracha: That's not an audiobook, though. No, I don't think any of my books are in audio.
Host: Okay. Not yet. They could be in the future. That’s fantastic. Bracha, thank you so much for being on the Lifelong Wellness podcast today. I learned a lot and I'm sure our listeners learned very much as well. And I’m so happy to be talking to you about spirituality, soul, addiction, all the things. And you, oh so kindly shared your own personal story with everyone around the world for your memoir, Searching for God in the Garbage and today as well. And I’m really looking forward to your two new books that are going to be coming out when this year, next year, possibly?
Bracha: Yes, exactly. They’ll be due out this year. Thank you so much. I really loved being with you on this program. Thank you.
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