Host: Welcome to the Lifelong Wellness podcast, where we talk to wellness professionals from around the world to gain their insights into healthier living. I’m your host, Wes Malik. Every episode we focus on a different well-being or health topic. Today we’re going to deviate just a little bit from that path to bring some different insights into living well, and that is through our relationships in our surroundings. We are talking to Sabrina Osso, the founder and CEO of OSSO Safe. She's a TEDx speaker, a domestic violence speaker, a real estate agent, a consultant on promoting safety and preventing violence in the workplace, schools, and places of residence. Very recently, she was one of the featured TEDx Talks speakers at New Jersey City University’s TEDx Talk event and she is here with us today to talk about what she's most passionate about. Sabrina, welcome to the Lifelong Wellness podcast. How are you doing today?
Sabrina: I am well. Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.
Host: Sabrina, you have a very specific mission in life and I was hoping I could ask you as our opening question, what is that mission in your life?
Sabrina: Yes, it’s to educate and to, well through education and technology to promote safety and prevent violence in people's lives, and that would include, specifically children. But to in essence, have violence not be part of anyone's life, period, over and out.
Host: So how does that fit into well-being and living well? Why is that important?
Sabrina: To me it is everything. I strongly feel you cannot be living your best life, you cannot be in any state of well-being if you are not safe. And specifically where there is no abuse, no chaos, no violence, no dysfunction in your, specifically, in your place of residence. And I think that in health nothing will break a body down like violence, like living with abuse, living with chaos. And then it may not attack you initially but as years go by it will affect your body. You have childhood trauma, you have childhood abuse and then you can be “fine” for a while, and then you have problems, anxiety, depression, overweight. Being overweight, cancer, arthritis later on in life and it comes from how you lived at home as a child. So I think it ties in very, very closely.
Host: Is this still a current problem? It kind of feels like it's a previous generations’ problem. But is this a current problem right now?
Sabrina: Good question. Yes, it's definitely a current problem, absolutely. I mean, I could give you some statistics. For example, 1 out of 3 women will be beaten or raped in a lifetime, 1 out of 5 adolescent girls will be abused by her boyfriend, 1 of 7 men is abused. There are 50 million children that witness violence in their own homes each and every year and these statistics are just the ones that are documented. So, the violence, it passes on from one generation to the next unless you nip it in the bud, unless you take measures to not continue the cycle. To actually make it a point like, “You know what? I'm not going to do what my parents did to me”. So, I would say it's both. It’s current as well as generational. I hope I answered your question.
Host: You did very well, thank you. You would think that with so much awareness about these issues and people not afraid about talking about them. For example, you yourself and many other experts as well and everyone now so well educated on these issues through school programs, community outreach, you know, television, media, movies, everyone's awareness is heightened to this. You’d think we wouldn't have these problems, right?
Sabrina: Well, I feel that it makes sense that we do because I have to say this is still a very, very taboo subject, an extremely taboo subject. I think that a lot of people are scared to talk about it. There's a lot of shame that goes on with it, that goes along with it and people don't want to talk about it. And I feel that a big mistake is treating this as a charity, as a non-profit. I've been saying this for quite some time, so long as we treat this as a charity, as a non-profit it will never be resolved. People will not be inclined to talk about it openly, which is why I created in my business the way I did because I am looking to make this a standard conditional residency, bridging real estate, the real estate industry with residency as far as, “Look, this is not allowed”. We have a zero-tolerance policy for violence in this building and your place of residence and I feel that that's how it should be. So yes there is more awareness, definitely. Especially with the Me Too Movement, the Time’s Up Movement, even racism. It all starts with the home. The coronavirus has definitely increased home violence, it has spiked big time across the globe. Everywhere that the coronavirus is, which is global, domestic violence or home violence has spiked. So, there’s definitely more awareness, but as far as resolving it, we definitely fall short which is why I have created OSSO Safe the way I have.
Host: Tell us more about OSSO Safe. What is it?
Sabrina: Yes. We combine education and technology to promote safety and prevent violence in the workplace, schools, and in particular in your place of residence. We are a business. We provide services and the three main markets are schools, universities, workplaces, and places of residence. Something that I am introducing into the real estate industry is the OSSO Safe Home Sweet Home Package. And this is going back to what I said before, where we are combining education and technology to make residences safe. Let's face it, you have a 10 unit building and one of those units, you hear kicking and screaming and yelling and cops come to that residence and you live in that unit that has violence is Unit 5 and you live in Unit 1. You are affected by that violence. You’re in Unit 1, you got along great with your significant other, your children. You practice safety, there is no violence. But if you live above or below or across from a violent family, it’s affecting your residency. And what typically happens is that you leave. Like the “good-paying, well-behaved tenants” leave. We’re looking to flip all of that. Why should you leave? It's the abuser that has to leave that family that is causing all of the violence. So that way, this is beneficial for a landlord to say, “Wow! I purchased the package. I had OSSO Safe in here. All of my tenants signed the policy. Everybody got educated and we have technology in place to remove he said, she said factor”, “Wow! My building now is OSSO Safe certified which means that everybody's home violence conscious, we are fostering a safe environment here, and we practice safety”. So, this is a win-win all around. So that way the landlord has incentives to say, “Yes. I want my property OSSO Safe certified because this is good for business, it's good for my tenancy or for tenancy in general, and I want my tenants to feel safe like never before”. Beyond the, “Okay, there is no asbestos here. The pipes are working, there are heating and hot water”. Well, let’s take it to the next level. Safety in terms of violence where violence doesn't occur. And if it does, there are systems in place that OSSO Safe implements and introduces and implements if and when it happens. So, I hope I’ve explained OSSO Safe in a nutshell. (laughing)
Host: Yes. That's a new way to, you know, I believe, detect and counter-violence in a property or residence. What's currently the problem with what's being done now to combat home violence? What do you think the issues are there?
Sabrina: Yes, good question. Right now, as I mentioned before and it's worth stating, and I respect all of the non-profits and the charities that deal with, that mitigate home violence, domestic violence. However, to a certain degree, they're keeping the problem in place. We have on any given day in the US as many as 20,000 people are seeking refuge at an emergency shelter. So basically it’s like living in a war zone and the victims are leaving their residences, uprooting the children. And whether you're a man or woman, let's face it, yes most of the victims are female but there are male victims out there and the children are always victims. And the courts make it worse, by far. The agencies that are supposed to protect children, I have personal and professional experience with this, they make it worse practically where it’s a band-aid. They remove children from families that aren't violent and the ones that are violent they stay there. The children have to stay there because it's a parental privilege, parental law, but the parents are the ones that are the problem. They are, in essence, the criminals. You can have one parent or both parents that are abusive and you have the parents that are divorced then they have different partners. And that's fine that you have different partners but if those partners are, let's say sex offenders or they are abusive either physically, sexually, verbally or a combination of any of those three and you’re exposing your children to those abusive partners it is a recipe for disaster.
Sabrina: And I find that ultimately, you have the lawyers, you have the agents, the child protection service agencies, you have the police. You have the… Ultimately, it's the judges and I have to say the judges are, not too many of them, they do not do what's in the best interest of that child at all. If anything, they make it worse. They just keep the child with the abuser, with the abusive family member or the abusive parent and they just stick to that formula regardless of what happens to the child. So, with OSSO Safe, I consult with a small team of lawyers on a consistent basis and I had one of the lawyers that practice Family One. She said, “Sabrina, you are actually short-circuiting the entire process with what you're doing because if you make it a standard conditional residency where the abusers are the ones to leave, you don’t need to have courts involved per se. You don't need to have cops involved because now this it's a standard conditional residency”. You sign the policy, okay, wow. I know that if I even attempt to beat my wife or my girlfriend or my boyfriend or my husband, there are going to consequences here. I'm going to be evicted. And I was educated in a classroom atmosphere what abuses, what the differences between abuse and discipline so you can’t get away with things the way you did before. So and then you have the other people in the other residences, in the apartment building, everybody's on the lookout for everyone else and it's talked about openly. So this is actually being proactive. It's being preventative versus waiting for the, for lack of a better phrase, for the crap to hit the fan and then do something. Because once you call the cops, it's too late at that point. You want to be aggressively, proactively preventative and that's what OSSO Safe is striving to do all around.
Host: So, if we see abuse, violence, or such things in our homes or in somebody else's home, what do would we do? What is your advice to people when they see something like that happen?
Sabrina: Well, if it is… I would say call us to get the education there, to get the property OSSO Safe certified. Like I mentioned before, the OSSO Safe Home Sweet Home Package to get it introduced and implemented with your property owners, with your property managers right away. And I realized the coronavirus that it is, you know, everyone has to do business differently to resume, but things are reopening slowly so we can do Zoom seminars as well as in person. And I know everything will open up eventually, but the whole point is to get something in there right away. So when violence happens, document it, know that it's not your fault, know that you are not alone, and to do everything possible to get the abuser out and have that abuser stay out. You are not going to be able to change that abuser. You are not going to be able to… Like in my own experience of violence and I grew up with violence as a child, there is no way you can appease the abuser. There is no way. Because usually in families with abuse you try every which way to appease the abuser. You know, don't do this, don't do that. Take out the garbage at a certain time so that way you don't upset your abusive husband or wife or boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever the case may be. You’re not going to appease them. You give them an arm, they’re going to want your shoulder. You give them your shoulder, they’re going to want your leg. You give them your leg, they’re going to want your torso. For lack of a better phrase, there is no pleasing the abuser. So the best thing to do is to get us in there. Let's do the education, let's have everybody be held accountable. Let's get the landlord where they hire us to educate everyone, have the policy signed, and have the technology implemented because I can say, pretty much violence, some level of violence is more often than not present due to the statistics that they are. And like I said the judges, the system that is supposed to be working they make things worse, which is a testament to me to show to say, “Wow! That's why the statistics are what they are because the law doesn’t protect children. It doesn’t protect victims. It actually favors the abusers practically”. And we are big proponents of therapy. Get therapy whatever your insurance is. And if you cannot afford it, if you cannot afford any sort of therapy, there are a lot of…If you see, if you notice due to the coronavirus, there's a lot more advertising with mental health. There's Talkspace, there are others also that are…Oh, NAMI, nami.org, call them, reach out to them. Any form of therapy will help you where you are, when you are in abusive situations and then afterward when the abuser is removed. So, because there is no way that you can handle this on your own, especially with the coronavirus. And we are all homebound, violence has increased, right? So, anyway that you can get therapy will be very very helpful in any capacity and it will get you to see, to make you aware, ‘Wow. I'm in an abusive relationship and I didn’t even realize it” or “Wow. Just because my religion is XYZ, I don't have to put up with this”, “Wow, it's the abuser's fault, not my kids, not me”. So, all of these factors will help if you are in an abusive relationship, by far. I hope I’ve answered your question.
Host: You did. Wellness and health like you said before, are secondary to safety. If we don't have a secure household, a secure neighborhood, our schools, our workplaces aren't secure and we are not safe then we’re not going to be focusing on health, our well-being, our mental wellness, our state of mind. We won’t be able to give time to ourselves, of course, we’ll be preoccupied with other, you know, very unsecure moment just try to secure ourselves. How do people get in touch with you to get OSSO Safe?
Sabrina: Yes. My website is ossosafe.com. That’s O-S-S-O and then the word safe, S-A-F-E dot com. My email address is Sabrina, S-A-B-R-I-N-A at ossosafe.com. I am on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Alignable. I’m pretty much on all the major social media outlets and that would be the best way to reach me. But very good point, Wes. Yes, when you live in those types of environments, it’s such a distraction. You can’t focus on your life, on what it is that you want to do, on playing the violin or wanting to dance or being an engineer because you're distracted because you have to fight a war in your own house. So, a very good point that you made that.
Host: So, as a parent, usually I’m concerned about my children outside of the house and with people that they interact with. I’m worried about high school, university, elementary public school environments as well and you hear about it all the time. I talked to my son about it. I had to talk to him about it. He said that you know, he felt he was being bullied one day and that's, it was a cause of concern to me because, you know, I know the temper and temperament of my child and, you know, what kind of attitude he has towards other children. So, you know, I had, we had to talk to him. We had to go through and address the problems. I, myself, I have experienced bullying, you know, throughout school and high school. I'm sure you have and other people have seen or experienced forms of that, too. You know, even our first lady has a great program for the last two or three years to combat bullying and it's been a buzzword for quite some time now. Online bullying, social in schools, what's your experience with that? How are you working on those aspects?
Sabrina: Yes, bullying is another form of abuse. It’s another form of essential violence because it carries over on many genres, right? It could be cyberbullying, it could be person-to-person bullying. Yes, school violence or workplace violence. You can be bullied by your boss, you could be bullied by a professor, another student. And to me, it's just another word for abuse. And chances are the bullies are either, for the most part, they’re probably getting bullied at home and then they're taking out their frustration to feeling powerful at school, at work, at their university because they have no control at home because mom is beating up dad or dad is beating up mom or they come from the divorce so they’re dealing with a stepdad, a stepmom. So, all of these factors are at play or they take to online where they embarrass someone, humiliate someone online. So there are so many aspects of it but it's all abuse. So again this goes back to education. This goes back to creating safe environments for our children from when they are very young so that way as they get older they carry that safety with them because they were raised in a nurturing, loving, empowering, supportive environment. All the school violence, I would say all the school shootings, if you trace it back…
Sabrina: To those students, their home life, their home life is hell. It’s just hell and I'm not making excuses for them by far. For example, the Parkland Nikolas Cruz, he comes from, I believe, a whole string of foster homes and again I'm not excusing him. And then he was going out with this girl, she broke up with him, she saw that he was abusive and he took revenge on the school and after being, I believe, extradited from the school and killed X amount of people, including teachers and other students. I mean, so we have to connect the dots and the dots between school violence, workplace violence, university violence, school shootings, cyberbullying, all of it comes from how one is raised at home. I really do believe that. So I feel that the focus has to be on the home. How one is raised at home, which is why we focus on residency, on making this a standard conditional residency. Because if you make home safe, everything else falls into place. There won’t be school shootings, there won’t be workplace violence. And like you pointed out, your child is raised nonviolently, they’re raised in safety, in a good environment but if he or she is sitting at a desk next to someone like a Nikolas Cruz, well, we all have to do our part. Like the parents or the foster parents of Nikolas Cruz. And if Nikolas Cruz was addressed at 5 years old, at 4 years old, at 10 years old where he was taught, “Look, there's to be no access to any guns, any violence”. Let's get him into therapy, an excel-related therapy, not just, you know, some weak form of therapy. Let’s get him into maybe 2, 3 times a week worth of therapy and really communicate with him. I strongly believe what happened in Parkland on February 14, what was it? Two years ago? Now, I believe it wouldn’t have happened. I think what he did was, he was a 19 years old, it's almost too late. So we have to focus before, before. And that's why I have created my business the way I did whereas three-pronged where the same information is heard at school, in the workplace, and place of residence. It’s repetition. You know, it’s repetition over and over again, repeating what the facts are, statistics, warning signs, definitions of abuse, the difference between abuse and discipline, what constitutes a good relationship. These are things that people have to be educated on. And I think we take it for granted that we think that people know but as I mentioned the statistics that I said before, people don't know. You know, for example, a big difference between abuse and discipline, you know, abusers will say, “No, I'm disciplining my child”. Discipline instills education and abuse instills fear. So, if your child is afraid in their own home, you're abusing your kid. But if your child is educated, well that's discipline. So, there's a big difference there and I think people need to hear that over and over again. I hope I answered your question, Wes.
Host: It’s very difficult to address this topic. And there are many facets and many areas that we can talk for hours and hours about. And to just generally sum up everything wouldn’t be doing justice to domestic violence, violence in school, abuse, sexual abuse, all these things. We could pick up one little aspect of this and talk for maybe two, three, four hours about this and still, you know, not cover the whole subject. Now, I have a very big problem in understanding abuse and violence although I've seen it up close. I just don't understand, and this is just me, this is no one else. I think anyone who listens to this podcast will definitely disagree with me. I don't understand how one human being can raise their hand or inflict pain or violence against another human being… especially when it comes to a relationship like a husband and a wife, boyfriend and girlfriend where there is love and compassion and, you know, you have a desire for one another. I just don't understand how that occurs. Are people who are abusive towards others, do they know they are abusive? Do they do it consciously? Do they consciously inflict pain on others? What do they get out of this?
Sabrina: Yes, very good question. Very good question. I think most of them and this is I have consulted with experts. I mean I am an expert in my own right, even though I'm not Degreed in social work, I’m not a psychologist, I’m not a psychiatrist but I do regularly take continuing education courses at Rutgers University. They’re leading university in this space of violence, domestic violence, school violence, violence against women, the whole subject matter. And I have taught, I am a substitute teacher, I taught dance so I call myself a non-Degreed expert.
Sabrina: And I feel that and I consult with experts in this space all the time and they say, abusers, for the most part, they do know. They do know what they’re doing. For the most part, abusers, I will say this, abusers are made. No one is born an abuser. No one. We are naturally actually safe and loving and caring people like babies. You know, babies are not violent. So, it’s all learned. And unfortunately for a lot of abusers, it is learned at a very young age. So, if they are not if they don’t want to make a change if they want to take revenge or they have no interest in changing their ways, they will continue their ways and make excuses, “Yes, you know, my father did this or my mother did this”. And that’s how it is. You know, that’s just how it is. I think when the time of Ray Rice, one of the football players on the NFL, was beaten with a, I believe, a wooden stick or a baseball bat I’m not sure. And he passed that on to his children and his explanation was, “Yes, I was raised that way” and I want to say to them that but didn’t work for you. I mean, look, you’re on TV, the NFL was exposed and just like I said the time of Ray Rice and all these players on different sports teams were violent. Not all of them but a good amount of them who were violent, that’s what their excuse was. It doesn’t serve you. It hasn’t worked for you. I applaud you, Wes, for…Everybody needs to think the way you just said that you would never ever think of raising your hand on anyone, that it’s mind-boggling to you to even think about raising your hand on someone let alone doing that to someone and especially to a child. A child is vulnerable. A child is the most vulnerable, period, over and out, next to pets, I would say.
Host: Absolutely, yes.
Sabrina: How can one even think that. It is learned, but the abuser I’m not going to excuse the abuser because you need to not to break the cycle. You need to not promote that, not carry that through, not to continue that and they can. They can with therapy, stop it in their tracks. It’s their way of gaining power. And with abusers, their biggest power where they take it to the maximum level is murder. Like they say, “You don’t listen to me? You know, I beat you, I rape you, I did all of these things. I verbally abuse you, I humiliated you, I command that you, I demand that you obey me”. All of that didn’t work, we’ll then they’ll resort to murder. So, that’s the last of it and they feel powerful, so to speak, but they’re wrong. They’re wrong. If anything, that makes them insecure, fearful, and weak. And that’s what we need to… Education is a big part of OSSO Safe. That’s where we really need to instill it, repeat it. And as I say with my business it’s a practice. We have to practice safety, we have to practice not being abusive. It’s not just one and done. And you do it unconsciously, Wes. You know, in your daily life. You do it because it wasn’t a part of your life. I’m sensing that you were raised in a very, and correct me if I’m wrong, you were raised in a very good, healthy, safe environment but yes, you experienced bullying and some form of abuse but it was outside your home. So you knew to recognize that it was not normal, which was good and we need everybody to do that where this is not acceptable, this is not normal. That safety is normal, love is normal, nurturing is normal. I hope I answered your question.
Host: It’s one, you know, follow up I have to that is, if you see someone in an abusive position towards people who are weaker to him or her in relationship-wise, children, etc. How do you talk to them? What do you say to them?
Sabrina: I’m sorry. To people that are abusive or people…?
Host: Yes, people who are abusive to others. How do you talk to them? How do you approach them and say, “Don’t do this”?
Sabrina: This is where the OSSO Safe Home Sweet Home Package comes in to play where this why with residency is so important. Because if you think about it, abusers, victims, they all go to some type of residence, whether it be a townhouse, a coop, a condo, a single-family home, a multi-family drawing, a two-family home, a villa, a mansion, a mobile home, it doesn’t matter. So, it’s in residency that education has to happen and we do it in a classroom atmosphere. And we don’t single anyone out so that way, the message will be heard because in a classroom atmosphere you have abusers, you have victims, you have non-abusers and non-victims. So, everybody gets educated the same. And I feel that when you remove the responsibility of safety out of the victim’s hands and you put it on the hands of residency, of landlords or property owners and it’s really a give and take like where the landlord says, “Okay, I’m going to provide you a safe space for you to live, you in turn as my tenant, you will promise to not act in any way shape or form that is abusive. Otherwise, you the abuser, get immediately evicted from the premises”. So, this is a whole new way of residency. It’s a whole new way of living and I feel that this will really catch on one residence at a time. And I make many, many posts on my social media where I am directly speaking to abusers like I just make post. Another way to do this is to repeat it over and over again that this is not working for you. And for example, my father was an abuser. He passed away 2 ½ years ago. He was one of the most miserable people on the planet and they’re not happy. They’re not happy at work, they are not content, they are miserable. So, to repeat that to them, to say, “Look, this is not working for you and you are taught wrong and you are hurting your children over and over again”, I think the education has to be instilled over and over again. And in residency, if the consequences are that you will be evicted, I think they will change. They will have to change. Otherwise, they won’t be able to live anywhere. I think that’s where the focus needs to be because what we have been doing has not been working. And OSSO Safe makes it a point to say, “Look, this is not acceptable. We will see to it that your children are safe, that everyone in your household is not abusive, and the technology reinforces the education and the education reinforces the technology”. And this is how it is now a standard. All properties becoming OSSO Safe certified and one property at a time and I feel that this is where residency is moving towards. Especially with the coronavirus and everything that’s happening in our world currently, I feel that people will see that. That it’s a residency that the focus has to be.
Host: You’re absolutely right. This reminds me of a corporate documentary, a voice very recently where they used the tagline that is very current these days. And actually it came out after 911 and that is, “(If you) See something, say something”. And this corporation, you know, encourage the employees to be vocal about things and I think that’s important in our lives. If we see domestic violence, any kind of violence, bullying in our buildings, apartments, in our homes amongst our relatives, our friends, our neighbors, maybe we should have the courage to say something about it to those people or to someone out there.
Sabrina: Yes. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yes. It’s just that most people because they are in the confines of legal, you know, and the courts and people are afraid.
Sabrina: People are afraid like if I say something then…
Host: The standard response is, “I don’t want to get involved”.
Sabrina: Right. And I feel that our approach, the OSSO Safe approach actually makes, and I don’t want to use the word force, but it makes it easy to get involved because it’s residency now. It’s a culture of safety in the building, in your place of your residence. So, it’s just how we do things here in at 123 Main Street. We are OSSO Safe certified, it’s an accepted way of living. Whereas now, currently with the court and police and judges because when you go before a judge it could work against you or for you. So people are afraid. And there is a statistic where once a woman decides to leave, she is 75% more likely to be killed. And I’m going to say that again, once a woman decides to leave, she is 75% more likely to be killed. So if the odds are stacked that highly against you, would you leave? Would you be more inclined to say something? Chances are no because you are living with a terrorist essentially. So, that’s because we are putting the responsibility of safety all on the victim. Whereas the OSSO Safe way, it’s just residency where it’s the landlord and the property owner where they got their properties OSSO Safe certified. So now everybody is part of the picture. Everybody is part of the solution. Everybody is educated, they signed the policy, the technology is installed so now, it’s just the standard. So I feel that the shame is removed, you know, the fear is a lot less. And like I said I think that this will really catch on one property at a time.
Host: I think what you’re doing is fantastic. One last question before you leave us. What are four takeaways or actions or steps to promote safety and prevent home violence?
Sabrina: Yes. Some of them, a couple of things I mentioned and they’re worth reiterating, but one is therapy, by far. Therapy is a big way to combat, to keep yourself in check on how not to be violent, to learn how to promote safety, to be aware like, “Oh, I didn’t realize I’m repeating the same mistakes as my abusive parents”. So, therapy really is how for whether group or individual. Secondly, we have to remove from our vocabulary calling women and girls bitches, sluts, whores, tramps, sleazes, floozies, bimbos, fats, and all the other lovely titles that are given to us.
Sabrina: That is a very big way to combat or to minimize home violence or and to promote safety. Because once you reduce someone to those labels, it makes it easy to abuse, it makes it easy to beat them up, and it makes it easy to rape them. So that’s number two. Number three, pornography. No pornography, whatsoever. I am not talking about sexual freedom. Let me be very clear, pornography is the opposite of sexual freedom. Pornography is 88.2% physical aggression towards women. So, when we give pornographic materials to our sons, our grandsons, our nephews we are essentially teaching them how to be hostile, violent towards girls, towards women when they grow up.
Sabrina: So pornography, and I could talk about that for an hour or two alone. So that’s a big way to lessen violence against, well just violence in general against men, against women, against children. That would be number three. Number four would be, do not fight in front of your children ever. And I’m not saying you’re not going to argue, you’re not going to disagree with your partner, you’re not going to have your differences, I’m not saying that at all. But when you fight in front of your children, it should never ever, ever get across the line of abuse where you are derogatory, where you start throwing things at your partner, where you start beating them. Never, never, never. That’s abuse. Yes, you’re going to fight, you’re going to argue, you’re going to disagree but maybe when you have those heated arguments and you know that it’s a heated topic, make a point to say, “Look, okay. Let’s have the kids be watched by grandma or grandpa, by aunts and uncles. Let’s have them go to the mall with their trusted friends or family members so that way we could really hash this out”. If it’s going to get heated in the sense that where there’s going to be some yelling, you know, and that happens in relationships. It does happen but it should never, it should never get to the point of abuse. And I would say just to throw it in, point number five is as a takeaway, realize that this is a practice. We have to practice not being abusive, we have to practice safety. I hope that helps your audience. I know I practice these myself in my own life every single day.
Host: I hope so, too. Sabrina can be reached at ossosafe.com and [email protected]. Sabrina, thank you so much for your time today for our podcast.
Sabrina: Thank you, Wes. I really appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity
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